Episode 142

How to Lead Your Company with Cara Parker

Cara Parker is the owner of C Parker

Consulting, Inc. which provides strategic planning and facilitation,

leadership and workforce development, team effectiveness and

optimization and offsite & retreat consultation and design. Cara

serves as primary consultant but leverages her team of consultants when

needed to ensure a perfect match to client needs.

The results Inspiring Higher Performance in Our Clients Improved

interpersonal and group processes, Enhanced communication, Effective

decision making processes, Greater self-awareness among leadership,

Improved skill in dealing with conflict, Higher levels of trust and

cooperation among organizational members

https://www.cparkerconsulting.com/contact

On this episode we discuss:

Leadership

Expert Cara Parker discusses with John Barker the steps an organization

and leaders need to take to improve their communication skills.

Cara Parker discusses with John Barker how the risk management response plans to Covid-19 measured up.

Cara Parker discusses with John Barker how to work with different personality types as a consultant.

Cara Parker discusses with John Barker some of the causes of corporate friction or infighting.

Leadership expert Cara Parker discusses with John Barker her approach to new business challenge.

Cara Parker discusses with John Barker to maintain your business momentum and improvements and not fall back into bad habits.

Transcript
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My name is John Barker and I've got my great friend Cara Parker on today

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to discuss all things, leadership and processes and communications.

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And it hit me as I was prepping for Cara that we've known each

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other for almost 20 years now.

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, but I've known Cara long enough where I've had to help her kids out with video games.

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Back in the day with super Mario brothers

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Cara Parker is the owner of C Parker consulting, which provides

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strategic planning and facilitation leadership and workforce development.

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Her core expertise is around strategic planning.

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The goal for her clients is to improve interpersonal and group processes,

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enhance communication, effective decision making processes, greater

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self-awareness among all team leadership.

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Higher levels of trust and cooperation among all organizational members and care

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is also currently pursuing and probably finishing up her doctorate at this point.

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Do you enjoy talking business?

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Do you enjoy reading about business?

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Do you geek out over the entrepreneurial journey?

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If so, then you are in the right spot.

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The business amide podcast brings you.

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The stories told by the people themselves you'll be immersed in a wide variety

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of industries from venture capital.

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To gourmet popcorn learning how to be a better leader or the personalities behind

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solving the broadband crisis at the business, Sam MRI, we believe it takes a

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wide variety of skill sets and experiences to be successful in business and life.

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Our aim is to not only entertain, but educate for you to recognize how

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successful tactics and motivations in one industry can help propel you

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forward in your own unique business.

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Sit back, enjoy, and welcome to the business am samurai podcast.

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I am your host, John barker.

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So, so give us a little bit of backstory.

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How, how did you evolve into coming you where you wanted to get into

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helping other people become better leaders and better business runners?

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Hmm,

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good question.

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And, uh, you know, sometimes things just evolve.

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And when I started my organization, Gee back in, uh, 2007, it's been a while.

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I really had an interest in really from the organizational side and,

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uh, well run meetings and well run structures and how organizations

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were set up and how they defined themselves, their vision, their mission.

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But what I soon discovered is that that's great and we have to have

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those structures in place and the organization has to be formal.

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But there's also a whole side missing and that's the leadership and it's taking

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care of the people and understanding what builds their morale and what

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motivates them to be successful.

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And what I soon came to discover that it really is a systems approach.

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You can kind of think about the old fashioned ven diagram, where it has to

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be the organization with the people and you can't have one without the other.

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They have to work in tandem and it has to be a win-win for.

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I think we've seen in recent times, especially during COVID where one

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side has taken over the other side.

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And our tendency is to say, oh, well the people, people, people, but we

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can't forget about the organization.

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And at the same time, we can't say organization, organization focus.

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Without the people.

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So again, I maintain, it has to be a good marriage.

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How do,

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when somebody reaches out and says, Hey, we, you know, we, we know

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we've got some deficiencies here.

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What areas?

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How do you usually approach that initial engagement to sit there and

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evaluate and go, hold on a second.

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This is people are avoiding decisions.

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Uh, the teams aren't communicating, how do you go in there and evaluate

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kind of what the, the core trouble is?

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So you can get to the root of the problem.

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Well, I find that there's two sides to every story.

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So I get the call typically from a senior manager or from the vice president of HR.

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That's usually how the entry is into CPC and there's a problem.

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And, uh, they're telling me their side of the story and they're trying to also

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be sympathetic to what the big picture is and going on, uh, around, uh, at large.

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and I like to do then that first, what I call the discovery tour

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or the diagnostic side and go in and talk with the leadership.

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And also at the same time, uh, talk to different people, uh, across section of

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the employees, if you will, at a variety of different levels positions, um, I find

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that by the time I do about three or five interviews, I'm seeing a lot of trends.

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It doesn't take too long.

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Um, and usually what I find is that there's one same problem.

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They're coming at it from different angles, which is positive because

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if we can identify what the issue.

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Then we can identify, okay, what are the strengths, um, around that issue?

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That problem, which sounds kind of funny to say, but there's always, uh,

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there's always some solution in there.

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And usually each side has a solution.

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It might be pointed at the other side, but if you can come to that marriage

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again, that's, uh, that's really helpful and that's really positive.

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So when you start synthesizing those finding.

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And start then bringing the teams together.

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That's where you can really get a lot of the Eureka, um, that I call as it, as it

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comes together around thinking about where you want the policies and the procedures

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and how you want to change and communicate

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better.

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How do you have to manage the personalities within that, particularly

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when you're dealing with leadership and you got made somebody that's just can be.

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I don't wanna say overbearing, but they're used to being in charge.

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They're used to being in there and you're trying to ma balance

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that out with maybe the subject matter expert that's on their team.

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That's trying to, again, coming at it from a different angle.

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How hard is it to navigate those types of, uh, dynamics?

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It can be challenging.

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Uh there's that that's where really the facilitative style comes in.

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And that's also where I encourage organizations.

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If it really is starting to get a little contentious, uh, for them to

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look for a third party consultants or facilitator, uh, such as myself or one of

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my colleagues that are really skilled and trained in how to bring people together.

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The biggest piece that I see is that.

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every person wants their voice heard.

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And sometimes if you just allow proper space for a person to talk and share, get

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their thoughts out, get their grievances out, um, and start building trust

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within whether it's with me and them.

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Um, or the group at large that starts to make a difference and starts

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to tear down some of the walls.

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And there's some facilitative techniques that we use.

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There's a whole.

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Theory around it's called liberating structures.

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I wish I would've been smart enough to come up with it, but there's lots

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of different techniques associated with it where you allow one person

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to speak and they get the floor for maybe seven minutes just to, to do

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a full, uh, discussion, if you will.

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Uh, they can just a monologue if you will.

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And then, uh, they have to be quiet and the rest of the people

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have a chance to discuss that's.

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because they've had a chance to get everything off their chest

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that they've wanted to hear.

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And the people around them know they get a chance to respond and that

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person gets to hear their perspectives.

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And intentionally has to sit quietly and we set all of that up.

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Very positive.

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We come at everything's.

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From a strength based appreciative inquiry.

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This is positive.

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We're working towards solutions, uh, philosophy.

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And that that really helps to, to motivate.

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And again, when you're talking about teams coming together,

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a great tool to, to use, no,

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that's awesome.

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Do you find that for the companies that are starting to hit these, uh,

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these friction points internally, is this usually a result of they've went

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through some sort of growth or something, some other external factor where it's

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like, all right, we've kind of been.

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Uh, just kind of, I don't wanna say, use the term plotting along, but you

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know, you're, you're kind of mm-hmm, , you know, you're just, you're, you're

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hitting the fires at a certain point and that, and just constant firefighting

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has gotten to a, a break point where you've gotta co start putting in some

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of those process procedures in place.

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Is that, is that a fair assumption?

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I think it is.

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There's lots of reasons for organizations to kind of hit that barrier.

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People are humans.

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So, uh, we all bring different aspects into, uh, the workplace.

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I would say what I'm seeing is exactly what you just said

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around, Hey, we were a startup.

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We grew really fast and now, oh my gosh, we've got 50 or a hundred employees.

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We need to get smart about this.

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The other piece I'll say right now to bring it really relevant.

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So what's going on is COVID and I hate to, to.

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To kind of bring it back to COVID, but there's some realities there.

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I've had several organizations call and.

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You know, we're coming back into the workforce, but you know, one

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week we're coming in, in March the next week, Aran has spiked and now

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we're not coming back until April.

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So it's just a continual messaging nightmare from communications

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and planning for organizations.

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And then plus now we're saying, okay, well it's hybrids.

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So you have to be in the office two days, but you pick your two days.

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It, it it's so many, it's so many complications.

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Um, We're holding a lot of mini town halls.

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And so if we can allow people to, to talk and share, and we gather information on

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behalf of the organization in these small group forums, you know, those little

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microcosms that's where change occurs.

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The other piece that you mentioned around, Hey, as it just happened so fast

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is organizations get tired of change.

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We call it change fatigue.

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And when you're headed down one path and then this policy changes, or this,

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this procedure changes that can get old really quick, coupled on layers,

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upon layers of, you know, other issues that an organization just deals with.

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So finding those pain points and really prioritizing what those

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pain points are, is important.

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You can't solve all issues, but I say, if you can prioritize a couple, a

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lot of times, if you knock those out, you solve some of the other issue.

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As well,

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well, let's stick with the, the COVID for, for a minute, just because I mean,

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something we all can relate to at, at this point, because we, we are getting

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whiplash with, you know, things at a national level, at a local level.

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The CDC says this, but the Virginia health department says this and you know, how do,

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how do you think companies have handled.

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Have handled the whole situation.

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Um, and what would you say is at this stage would be the best method to go

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forward with being consistent without everybody waking up each day of the week

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going, well, I gotta wear masks today, but on Tuesday I don't, but Friday I've

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got to and I gotta, what would your, what would you recommend knowing that.

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Wild wild is the best term I can come up with.

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I think that's a good one.

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And I particularly liked your term whiplash.

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That's a perfect way to describe it.

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And that's, it's, it's a tough one.

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I just had a meeting this morning with a potential new client who is,

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is struggling with this exact topic.

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And one thing that.

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Uh, done at, uh, my firm is to try to work with companies, to look at it

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holistically that yes, we need to start putting in policies and procedures

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around keeping the workforce safe.

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It's also about wellness.

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Um, it's also about communication.

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It's also about how do we maintain productivity within a hybrid workforce?

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So I don't think there's one silver answer.

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Um, I think it's begins.

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And, and you'll hear me say this a lot.

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It begins with talking to segments of your organization.

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And I think that the big message that we have to go out with to employees

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is please remain flexible because what we know today is very different

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than what we'll know tomorrow.

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And we've seen that time and time again.

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And my concern is that employee.

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We'll get entrenched in.

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Well, you said this six months ago.

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Well, the world's very different six months ago.

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Right?

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And that's what I encourage employees to do is to, to really, uh, to look

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for ways to be flexible and not entrench themselves into one mindset.

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And I encourage an organizations.

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To be very open and transparent around their decision making and what's

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going to govern their decision making and, um, putting together a small

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task force of, uh, employee based decisions making when it comes to.

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but looking at it holistically and giving employees the tools and

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techniques that they need, you know, I think early on, um, I think about how

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naive I was in March of 2020, and we were just kind of sent home and said,

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okay, we're just gonna work from home.

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Well, we didn't really know what that meant.

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And we got really smart on that.

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And now we're saying, Hey, we like this work from home thing.

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Mm-hmm this is good.

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We're, we're productive here.

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I don't have a commute, especially for those of us who live in Northern Virginia.

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But is that feasible when our culture grew up?

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In a face to face.

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So finding that that middle ground or that hybrid I think is, is really key.

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No,

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absolutely.

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And, and, and I know that, you know, from my perspective,

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uh, I like the work from home.

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I think that there's a lot of time wasted in, in office politics,

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nonsense types of things.

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Having had that ex obviously having had that experience.

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I think everybody can relate to that and that you can be more productive.

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Everybody kind of goes.

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Regroup at certain points, all of that nature.

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Um, but, uh, what would you, one of the things that I see is there is always,

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uh, the success of anything comes down to how effective the communication strategy

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is, whether it's across the company or even within teams that have to coordinate

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with each other, but maybe not don't work alongside each other all the time.

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Yeah.

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How, how have you seen.

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Um, them handle the communication.

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And what would you do to improve that dynamic?

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So everything can start running a little bit smoother.

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Yeah.

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Um, that's a tough one and there's, there's whole studies done around how to

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do that, but I think it starts with each team being very clear on their purpose.

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Uh, I think sometimes teams are stood up and there's a lot of assumptions

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made and it's five meetings in and somebody finally says, wait,

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what are we supposed to be doing?

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And that's that's baffling.

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I've never been part of

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those.

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Yeah, I think we all have.

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We definitely all have.

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Um, so I think the first piece is really good team development.

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Um, and you mentioned.

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Uh, my PhD, my dissertation is those early stages focused on these, those

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early stages of team development.

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And it's really around, here's the clearer purpose that we have.

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Here's the mission.

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Here's what we do.

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And I would say just as importantly, here's what we don't do.

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And then if you can articulate what those lanes are and then

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start to say, okay, who's.

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Stakeholders, where do we have to hand off our work to, and where

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do we have to receive that work?

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And then you start to kind of grow that and go have conversations with

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those teams and encouraging them to do good team development, early

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stage work too, but there's roles and responsibilities at the team member

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level need to be clearly identified.

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And then at the team level.

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And, and I just maintain that once you're clear on your purpose

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and what you're gonna do and not do and who you have to work.

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That starts to make a difference and setting expectations

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with those other teams.

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Um, to say, Hey, by the fifth of the month, I'm gonna need this report.

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So I can do my work.

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If you're not able to get it by the fifth, what date works best for you

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and those dialogues and setting up good rules of engagement up front?

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No.

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And you touched on something we're talking about roles and responsibilities

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that I have seen even in, uh, obviously I do a lot in the, in

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the tech and cyberspace that right.

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We're, I'm seeing.

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It's hodgepodge of mash up things that seem to not relate to each other.

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What would you advise these companies that, you know, they may not be able to

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get a full-time resource to do X and a full-time resource to do Y so they're

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like, hold on, we're gonna take these two job categories and account it and

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a software engineer and smash together.

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I haven't seen that one specifically, but I've seen some stuff like that,

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um, to actually to make sure you're getting the right people on the teams.

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Hmm.

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Do you have so what's so, so I what's the question.

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Yeah.

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So how would you, how would you approach someone that's, that's building out,

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whether it's filling out a project or just filling out the organization

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to properly identify, do you put the roles to a, to a person or do you

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define what the job needs to be and then go find somebody to fit that?

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I mean, what's, what's the best approach that you find to be most

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effective for the organization?

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Well, I'm gonna go back to our project management world, John, and talk about

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the old fashioned racy chart first . So, um, I, I would recommend for the team

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lead team manager department lead, whoever is, uh, the best person to

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really do start with what tasks need to be done and start defining them.

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And then start to put together a racy mm-hmm and for our listeners and viewers,

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the racy, uh, stands for responsible, accountable, consulted and informed.

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And so you have a task and then you assign the type of person, uh, that

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needs to, that falls into each one of those categories under that task, the

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R a C I, and then I would take a look as you're doing that simultaneously.

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And once you're understanding the tasks is take a look at your team.

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Your team members and define who's on your team and what strengths they bring, um,

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and mash that, uh, to use your word, mash that up against your racey chart, uh, to

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see who the best person is the best mix.

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Now, we aren't always gifted with a gifted team while a lot of times we're

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handed a team and we may not have the skillset that we need on that.

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And that's okay.

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Um, because we can, if you, if you've got people that are willing to do

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the work, you can spool them up.

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Whether it's on the job training, you can go get them additional external training

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at YouTube university, whatever your professional development of choices.

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But the point is, if you determine what needs to be done from a task, you do

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your racing, you find out who's on your.

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And then go have a conversation with your team.

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Again, I feel like so much is just thrust upon people and

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that's where people get anxious.

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Um, when they feel like they don't have that, self-efficacy when they

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don't have a say in what they're doing.

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And so giving people a chance to have a discussion discussing priorities on an

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ongoing basis, uh, from those roles and responsibilities, aligning the roles and

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responsibilities to the individual roles, uh, professional and personal goals.

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Um, Giving them those ownership and, and letting them take it and run

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with it and resist the urge when it doesn't go well to pull it back.

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Well, that, that leads into a, a pivot I wanted to go to when it talks about when

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we, we work with the leadership within an organization that calls you in, or maybe

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you're just working on another project.

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Uh, you know, I, I think over the years, I've, I've worked or consulted.

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I think it was close to a hundred different places.

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So I've like you've seen some patterns and things of that nature.

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But one thing I see is that there's these points where the leadership or management,

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the, the company grows to a certain point and they kind of start removing themselves

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a little bit, but then get irritated in want to micromanage at the same time.

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What would you suggest for the team members that are

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actually trying to accomplish.

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You know, the goal, the mission of the company, but are, are getting,

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are getting those, those headbutting opportunities to get either the

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leader to go like, Hey, let me, like you said, empower me to do the job.

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Or get involved and help me do the, you know, the thing, right.

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Get outta the way, no specifics.

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But if it's just something I've seen a lot, a lot of time.

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So I don't know if you have any thoughts on how to approach the leadership

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without it making, making it offensive.

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. Hmm, I hear you.

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I hear you.

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Let's go to, you know, sometimes we have to focus or always, we

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have to focus on what we can control and what we can't control.

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So in this case, I'll say who, and we can only control ourselves.

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So I'm gonna actually back it back down to the employee.

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I think sometimes the employee doesn't, um, quite know the best way to

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communicate up and there is a skillset.

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In managing up or leading up or having those types of conversations.

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I'll give a couple of pointers for our listeners today is that, uh, when we

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think about leading up a lot of times, we as employees walk into our managers

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with a big laundry list of requests or a big laundry list of a status

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report and time and time again, we know that executives, leadership manager.

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They don't need all of that nor do they want it, nor do they have the time.

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So a couple of, uh, a technique that I use and I stole it from Korn ferry.

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Uh, they're a large management firm is called pair and flare.

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And so I encourage employees not to walk in with a big laundry list,

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but to really prepare for when they go in and pair stands for you.

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Give your point of view on the situation you list your action

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that you're recommending.

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You give the reasons which are the benefits and the consequences, and

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you give evidence to support it.

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You can do that in about three sentences, and then you can sit in

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silence and let them come back to you.

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Um, but the point is you wanna be short and clear.

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Um, so when you use that pair, and again, that stands for point of

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view actions, reasons, and evidence.

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Um, and then just be prepared as we say to flare meaning sometimes we don't know

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where our senior leaders are gonna go off to or what spoke to them quickly.

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And, um, they're kind of off and running in a different direction.

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So be prepared to think about, okay, where could this go in the conversation?

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But I find often that the employees, even though the, the manager

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wants to get out of the way, they don't wanna be a micro manager.

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They feel like they get sucked back in because the employees just give

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them so much information and they don't know how to sort through it all.

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And so they either appear hands off or they have to feel like they're drilling

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down, back in their business, so to speak.

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So I use the rule of three go in with three requests,

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no more than three requests.

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And if you can get it down lower, do

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it right.

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No, that, that totally makes sense.

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How do you deal?

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How, how would someone deal with those that are either indecisive leaders or

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leaders that don't stick to the decision that was made in those circumstances?

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That's tough.

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Um, Indecisive leaders, I would say, give them two choices, two options, you know,

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and you kind of have to know your leader.

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Some leaders like.

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A range of options.

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And let me choose from it.

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Some leaders like, just give me two, let me select, um, you

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can kind of size up your leader and, and know which they prefer.

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If you have an indecisive leader, I say, give them two options.

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Make, give them two options, give your recommendations, your

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evidence, and your reason why the other piece I like to couch.

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And you can do this very appropriately.

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Even if it's your supervisor is to say now, um, you know, I, I wanna

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give you some time to think about.

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Here's option a here's option B I'm recommending option a for, you

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know, here are these three reasons.

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I know that time is of essence on this project.

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Could we meet back up on Wednesday morning, just for 15 minutes

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to have a quick conversation and I'll get your decision.

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So you are making the request, you are putting yourself into control of

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what you can control and, um, you're giving a deadline back to your boss.

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Now, that sounds a little funny to say, but of course you're doing this in a

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very positive, uh, positive, you know, doing it for them on their behalf manner.

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And that helps.

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So that's, that's the indecisive manager.

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Um, the other manager that doesn't stick , that's tough.

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And, um, John we've both had managers that you kind of get one idea

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and you're working down one road.

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And then you wanna

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talk about whiplash.

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Yeah.

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I'm stealing that term because that's a good one.

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That's a good one.

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Um, what I find in that situation is you need to stay bonded with that person.

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Um, keep giving them frequent status reports, uh, recapping the discussions.

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And I know that feels like a lot of work and a burden on you as the employee and

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the executor, the implementer of the task.

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But it'll save you a lot of time.

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If you know, this person is apt to do that, what you don't want is to get to the

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end of a project and then go, well, boy.

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Yeah,

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but I think we should have, do I have an offline conversation for you later?

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Ooh, I've

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now definitely.

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So staying, staying really connected with that person.

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Um, weekly update.

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Even again, I'm a fan of even 15 minute meetings.

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Sure.

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Put 15 minutes on the calendar.

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Hey, this is what I've done this week.

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I just wanna make sure we're still on the same page.

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Uh, those, those things really help you don't wanna turn it in at the

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end and then go, oh, well, I thought we were doing something different

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continuing down now that you you've engaged with the company, you've got the

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teams kind of functioning more smoothly.

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There's less friction in there.

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Maybe the company's growing.

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They're getting ready to take on another project.

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So you you've removed a lot of the barriers you found the

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bottlenecks and that stuff.

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What what's the best way for a company not to kind of fall back that they

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keep those enhancements in place.

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So they don't, they don't kind of backslide as they continue to grow

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and continue to bring on new people.

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Yeah.

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Good question.

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I, you're asking a lot of good questions actually.

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Um, you're making me, uh, think on my feet, uh, this, this notion

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I would say of flexibility.

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I'm gonna go back to that agile and flexibility.

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I have a tendency, uh, to wanna go to very formal policies and procedures.

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But I have learned over the years that that's not always the case.

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You need to have some flexibility with your employees.

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So I'm a fan, certainly of good policies and procedures,

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especially as you grow and develop.

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And especially when you're getting into HR, because that's just good practice.

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But I worked for a firm one time and their answer to everything, their

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solution to any issue was we're gonna put a policy, we're gonna write a policy.

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Well, then you end up with a, you know, it's like the far book.

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Yeah.

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You know, a policy and procedure book like this, no one can possibly,

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um, be able to manage to that level.

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So I think it's about hiring the right people.

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It's getting the right people in the right.

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And then empowering them, giving them guidelines, guardrails, if you will, but

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empowering them to make decisions too.

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You know, they have to live within these lines, so to speak, but giving

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them some leeway, especially if you're in a growth mode, you don't

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wanna stifle your growth because the policy and procedure didn't say does.

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No, it it's funny.

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You mentioned that cause I, it is something I wanted to swing back to, uh,

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as far as, uh, talking about policies and procedures, one of the things

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that's big, anybody listen to this with government contracting is some

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of the cyber security requirements.

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And for years that's, that's seems to have always been kicked to the it department.

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But in reality, it is truly a whole organizational.

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Uh, culture and I, I really wanna find another word for culture.

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I I'm just, I feel like that's an overused term.

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but how hard is it when you've gotta take, you know, if you've had

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any thoughts and obviously this is just someone bringing on you now.

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Um, but, but taking something that somebody is always identified

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as being, this is your role, this is your responsibility.

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but truly for like a, a program to work, it takes everybody in the organization

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to function on the same page within those same guidelines and principles.

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One break in the link.

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Can bring down the entire thing.

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If the wrong thing is functions.

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Um, I, I just, is there a way to kind of keep all the trains moving in the same

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direction, roughly at the same speed?

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Yeah.

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Well that scare tactic is always powerful when you don't wanna be that person.

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Right.

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Um, Yeah, and cybersecurity.

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That's a good, that's a great example because we all have a responsibility,

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no matter where we sit in an organization to keep it safe, even

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if it's walking in the front door and not piggybacking on somebody exactly.

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With your card.

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So even starting, when you're walking in, um, Excellent point.

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I wanna, I wanna go back to where we, the way we started from around

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around roles and responsibilities.

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So as an employee, um, at whatever level on a project or even emerging

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leader level, All the way up to senior.

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I need to know what my very specific role is when it comes to cyber security.

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In this example that you just gave.

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And I would say, even standing up a team, standing up a new project, that cyber

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security should be a component of it.

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And maybe it's even bringing in somebody to come in from it for 15 minutes or

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20 minutes at a kickoff session with, for a project or a new team standing

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up and saying, This is your role.

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This is what we need from you, um, to be successful.

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And I'm not opposed to some of those scare tactics.

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I was just, uh, kinda laughing about to share some scenarios in this scenario.

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And I think we've all taken the cybersecurity training where we've had to

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answer the questions online on the screen.

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And, you know, have you brought down the company today or did you,

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you know, let that fishing come in?

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Um, so I think it's that partnership again, I think sometimes.

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Um, and you may not wanna hear this, but probably you already know it.

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Cybersecurity's a misnomer out there.

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It's scary.

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We don't know really what to do with it.

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Um, around the conference room table, we know it's really important.

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We know we should be watching our emails when they come in.

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We know we need to watch our laptops when we're working on the

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train, all that kind of stuff.

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But.

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When it comes down to the day to day project, and you're saying,

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Hey, for it to be successful, everybody has to, to be part of it.

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I think it's being really explicit around again, what those five things

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are I can do on this project to ensure that we are secure and again, not making

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it harder, harder than it has to be.

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No, you're absolutely right.

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And.

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It's it's one of the things I'm bringing on somebody else to the show that has a

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big PM background, but he's, I've seen him talk and he brings some fun to it

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because risk management and cyber security has always been getting a sledgehammer

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across the face with fear tactics.

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And it's just it's I feel like it's happened so repeatedly over the

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last few years that it's just not.

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People are numb to it and, and it's, it's trying to break through and try to

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make it not seem doom and gloom, but fun.

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And I've.

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Crack that code yet.

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I don't think,

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well, I think you're onto something though, because, um, I think we've learned

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in the health industry, for example, on, uh, if you've noticed there's not

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a whole lot of smoking commercials, do you remember the old PSAs, the people

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that you just saw on like passed out dying, you know, and they sound terrible.

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Look awful.

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They're on their death bed on the ventilator because they were smoking.

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Well, now we have switched the approach to when you don't smoke, look how

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healthy and active and you know, fun person and learning atmosphere.

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And I take notes and so changing, changing that mindset

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is really, is really key.

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Now, if we could get the SPCA to do that with their commercials, I'm telling you,

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they just bring me to tears every time.

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Um, but uh, you have to know when to use those tactics and.

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Well, we'll, we'll wrap up.

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I had like two more questions, but I'm gonna just end it on this last one,

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you know, with all the organizations you've worked with, what, what have you

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seen observed, or would really would describe the best leader that you,

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that you see the best traits, the best qualities for those that lead to success?

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Hmm.

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I'm gonna say care and compassion.

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So that sounds really basic because you can do all these great

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leadership assessments and there's all these philosophies on leadership.

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But I think when it boils down to it care and compassion, really

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being able to listen to a person.

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I subscribe to the 80 20 rule.

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Uh, for example, when you're coaching someone and that's what a leader does

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is coach where you are listening 80% of the time and talking 20% of the time.

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So that's the care side.

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And then the compassion side.

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is what can I do to help you be successful?

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And, uh, I don't mean that to sound squishy or mean it to sound

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that we have to acquiesce to every need that the employee has.

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Sometimes that compassion is helping an employee leave the

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organization with dignity.

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Sometimes that's helping the employee grow in advance and giving them opportunities.

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To do so.

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And to stretch them, that looks different for every relationship, but I would

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say of all the leadership philosophies and all the tools and assessments

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that I use care and compassion.

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Awesome.

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I really appreciate your time.

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If people wanna reach out to you to, to work with you connect, what's

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the best way for them to do that.

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I'm available by, uh, text or call at (540) 623-7454.

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You can also find me on my website and, uh, there's a contact me page

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and that'll come directly to me.

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I get all of those feeds.

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Awesome.

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And I'll make sure to have the links in, uh, the show notes and for

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everybody that's interesting care.

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Awesome.

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Awesome discussion.

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Thank you for your time.

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Well, John, the pleasure was all mine.

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I was honored to be asked.

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Thank you.

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I hope it wasn't too

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stressful.

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a good time.

About the Podcast

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The Business Samurai
Skills and Stories to be a Well-Rounded Leader in Business

About your host

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John Barker

20+ years of technology, cybersecurity, and project management experience. Improving business operations to create a culture of better cybersecurity and technology practices. John is the Founder of Barker Management Consulting and the creator of the Business Samurai Program.

MBA, PMP, CISSP